End of Christianity...

[R13]

There's two sides to the "Crusades". Chrisitians will say it was defensive and others will say that it was just them taking out whoever who wasn't them. I'll take the latter since they killed pagans, jews, enemies of the pope and plenty of others, not just muslims. The crusaders were told to kill those people in exchange for a clean slate with their sins, I wouldn't call that a "defensive" tactic. I know the religion was growing, but I haven't heard of 75 percent of the world - they were taking over the Byzantine(sp) Empire of course.


As for the science part, they don't really go hand and hand at all when it comes to how we got here. Though evolution still is a theory, I'd say it has a lot more facts to it then Adam and Eve. Science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind, those aren't my words btw.

[Gotch]

There's two sides to the "Crusades". Chrisitians will say it was defensive and others will say that it was just them taking out whoever who wasn't them. I'll take the latter since they killed pagans, jews, enemies of the pope and plenty of others, not just muslims. The crusaders were told to kill those people in exchange for a clean slate with their sins, I wouldn't call that a "defensive" tactic. I know the religion was growing, but I haven't heard of 75 percent of the world - they were taking over the Byzantine(sp) Empire of course.


As for the science part, they don't really go hand and hand at all when it comes to how we got here. Though evolution still is a theory, I'd say it has a lot more facts to it then Adam and Eve. Science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind, those aren't my words btw.

Here is a cut and paste; I don't have time to type it myself. I will stand by it as accurate:

630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca from his base in Medina.

632 - Muhammad dies in Medina. Islam controls the Hijaz.

636 - conquest of Syria. Victory in battle over the Byzantines gives Syria and the surrounding lands, all Christian - including Palestine and Iraq - to the Caliph.

636 - 642 Persia conquered by the Muslims.

642 - conquest of Egypt. The Arab/Muslim conquest moves west along North Africa into hitherto non-Arab/non-Muslim lands.

711 - Tariq (after whom Gibraltar is named: the Rock of Tariq - Gib al-Tariq) invades Spain. The Muslim conquest moves into Europe.
718 - conquest of Spain complete.
732 - Muslim invasion of France is stopped at the Battle of Poitiers (also called the Battle of Tours). This is regarded as one of the turning points in world history. The Franks, under their leader Charles Martel (the grandfather of Charlemagne), defeat the Muslims and turn them back out of France.


Thus, in exactly 100 years, from the death of The Prophet in 632, to 732, the Arab/Muslim realm has extended from the Hijaz, a province in Arabia, to encompass Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Persia, Egypt, the North African littoral, Spain and, temporarily, part of France. The first European interaction with Islam is with Islam in the role of a conquering army, and, in the case of Spain, one that comes to stay. Spain becomes a Muslim colony. Over several hundred years, Spain is reconquered - the reconquista - for Christendom. The last Moors are expelled in 1492 by Ferdinand and Isabella.


Flash forwar: My words

1453 - Muslim Turks conquer Christian Constantinople and make it the seat of the Caliphate
1456 - Muslims conquer Athens
1478 - Serbia, Bosnia, Crimea come under Ottoman control
1480 - Otranto in Italy taken by the Ottomans
1529 - Vienna besieged by the Ottomans
1683 - Battle of Vienna. The Turks are defeated by the Polish king Jan Sobieski leading a combined Polish-Lithuanian army. This is the high-water-mark of Turkish/Muslim conquest of Europe from the East.

[Gotch]

I would suggest reading "The Real History Of The Crusades" By Thomas Madden.

Without arguement one of the 2 or 3 foremost experts on the crusades.

[LCAS_712]

Burton 13, When you die I hope you think about what you are saying right now when god makes you countable for all that you have done, and sends you to hell (unless you might be able to see the light between here and there, but who knows this might be your last second on Earth). Well, on second thought, you will be down there with people just like you (gay liberals). Better hope hell has some lube cause your gona need it. Another second thought, you will like that stuff anyway just like here on Earth.

[buckeye_fan]

Burton 13, When you die I hope you think about what you are saying right now when god makes you countable for all that you have done, and sends you to hell (unless you might be able to see the light between here and there, but who knows this might be your last second on Earth). Well, on second thought, you will be down there with people just like you (gay liberals). Better hope hell has some lube cause your gona need it. Another second thought, you will like that stuff anyway just like here on Earth.

Saying that kind of stuff wont get you into Heaven, bub.

[centennialdawg]

Religion is only as real as a person lets it be. Man's inability to understand or explain things is always wrapped into religion. Like our belief, or disbelief that there is a life after this one.

I, for one, choose to believe in the Bible and all its teachings. To believe this, then you must first come to the understanding that a "higher authority" had something to do with our existence and not that it just clandestinely happened. The Bible even tells us that to God, a thousand years if but a day to Him. That one statement in the Bible tells me that evolution and religion can and do co-exist with each other.

[pvfan]

Since were talking about this, do you guys think Jesus had brothers, step or otherwise?

[1inStripes]

There has had to be some dramatic experience that Burton13 and Biggin has had to deal with in their young life or from birth. For them to be so young and already full of hate and anger. Maybe it had to do with some birth defect they've had or something to do with being raised by a single parent. No matter what it is I hope they can resolve their problems before they are so full of anger that it could cause permenant damage to their bodies or innerself. Maybe they were abused at some time in their life, anyway I hope you guys can find peace and get well soon.

There's really no need for those types of assumptions. That is part of what makes people look down upon Christians, and only puts them off even more on putting their faith toward God. They live in a country that, thank God, they can feel that way if they so choose. We all don't have to agree in this land.

[Crackersneckian]

There's really no need for those types of assumptions. That is part of what makes people look down upon Christians, and only puts them off even more on putting their faith toward God. They live in a country that, thank God, they can feel that way if they so choose. We all don't have to agree in this land.

I meant no harm in this post, its just I've seen problems like this before and the causes I was talking about has acctually happened. I've seen it first hand and I was kind of taking up for them. I agree we all don't have to agree because its that way in alot of households between family members. Since you feel that I over stepped my bounds then I will erase my post. Thanks for showing me the error of my ways.

[Counts]

As for the science part, they don't really go hand and hand at all when it comes to how we got here. Though evolution still is a theory, I'd say it has a lot more facts to it then Adam and Eve. Science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind, those aren't my words btw.

I do not see how evolution is a BIG problem

1) The 1st argument is that the earth is billions of years old and CAN NOT have been made in 144 hours (6 Days X 24 Hours) to this I say Who says it was 24 hour days? The bible was NOT written in English but was translated to english.....The Hebrew word used when speaking of creation (Days) is yon which CAN mean a 24 hour day or a unit of work time which is determined by its context in a sentence (Think of it like the Jurassic age (Millions of years) The dark age(hundreds of years and a coons age (anywhere between several years and a month LOL) In any case there is nothing IMHO that precludes 99.999% of evolution Theory from belief in God

That .001% is Adam and Eve and this honestly was a stumbling block for me........ What I did was make a few assumptions based off of questions (1)Where did the offspring of Adam and Eve find mates? (The bible said that Adam was created from dust but NEVER said where the other people who eventually reproduced with Adam and Eves offspring came to be.) Many believe that Incest was not forbidden until after the flood SO it was brothers and sisters. I personally think that there was a difference between the Animal (Human) and Adam aka the 1st Man (Who was created from dust) But a Son/Daughter of Adam and a human could reproduce a descendant of Adam (aka Man)..... A separate theory would be that the Adam and Eve story is a metaphor and that ADAM and Eve who while they MAY have been actual people were a representation of the human race and the eating of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil repents there enlightenment (gaining a conscience?) and move from a foraging to aquaculture (tilling the fields and what not) (It is interesting that the Bibles time-line for the days of Eden line up close to start of aquaculture being used)

In any case my point is that either explanation solves the evolution issue and while it does take a leap that some may not me comfortable making (On BOTH sides) It helped resolve things in my mind.

IMHO the story of creation even with the logic leap concerning Adam and Eve still make much more since than the accidental quiescence that is the alternative.